The name "catholic"

Pope Nicholas SG

Many people are under the illusion that the name 'catholic' or the Catholic Church never existed till Constantinian times or that no Christians called themselves so.

To strengthen my fellow brethen and to increase our knowledge of our historical roots, i have given a list of quotes from Apostolic Fathers. Apostolic Fathers are 1st century Christians who had interacted with the Apostles. Ignatius of Antioch was the ordained by Peter while Polycarp was the favourite student of the Apostle John. Church Fathers are Christian theologicans of the 2nd century to the 6th century.

Apostolic Fathers and Church Fathers:

"See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church." Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans, 8:2 (c. A.D. 110).

"[A]ll the people wondered that there should be such a difference between the unbelievers and the elect, of whom this most admirable Polycarp was one, having in our own times been an apostolic and prophetic teacher, and bishop of the Catholic Church which is in Smyrna. For every word that went out of his mouth either has been or shall yet be accomplished." Martyrdom of Polycarp, 16:2 (A.D. 155).

to be in honour however with the Catholic Church for the ordering of ecclesiastical discipline...one to the Laodicenes, another to the Alexandrians, both forged in Paul's name to suit the heresy of Marcion, and several others, which cannot be received into the Catholic Church; for it is not fitting that gall be mixed with honey. The Epistle of Jude no doubt, and the couple bearing the name of John, are accepted by the Catholic Church...But of Arsinous, called also Valentinus, or of Militiades we receive nothing at all. The fragment of Muratori (A.D. 177).

"[N]or does it consist in this, that he should again falsely imagine, as being above this [fancied being], a Pleroma at one time supposed to contain thirty, and at another time an innumerable tribe of Aeons, as these teachers who are destitute of truly divine wisdom maintain; while the Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1:10,3 (A.D. 180).

For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago,--in the reign of Antoninus for the most part,--and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled. Tertullian, On the Prescription Against Heretics, 22,30 (A.D. 200).

Whence you ought to know that the bishop is in the Church, and the Church in the bishop; and if any one be not with the bishop, that he is not in the Church, and that those flatter themselves in vain who creep in, not having peace with God's priests, and think that they communicate secretly with some; while the Church, which is Catholic and one, is not cut nor divided, but is indeed connected and bound together by the cement of priests who cohere with one another. Cyprian, To Florentius, Epistle 66/67 (A.D. 254).

'...thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church' ... It is on him that he builds the Church, and to him that he entrusts the sheep to feed. And although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single Chair, thus establishing by his own authority the source and hallmark of the (Church's) oneness...If a man does not fast to this oneness of Peter, does he still imagine that he still holds the faith. If he deserts the Chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, has he still confidence that he is in the Church? Cyprian, De Unitate Ecclesiae (Primacy text), 4 (A.D. 251).

I like Augustine so I shall quote him as well:

Inasmuch, I repeat, as this is the case, we believe also in the Holy Church, [intending thereby] assuredly the Catholic. For both heretics and schismatics style their congregations churches. But heretics, in holding false opinions regarding God, do injury to the faith itself; while schismatics, on the other hand, in wicked separations break off from brotherly charity, although they may believe just what we believe. Wherefore neither do the heretics belong to the Church catholic, which loves God; nor do the schismatics form a part of the same. Augustine, On Faith and Creed, 10:21 (A.D. 393).

"For in the Catholic Church, not to speak of the purest wisdom, to the knowledge of which a few spiritual, men attain in this life--not to speak of this wisdom, which you do not believe to be in the Catholic Church, there are many other things which most justly keep me in her bosom. The consent of peoples and nationsso does her authoritythe succession of priests[a]nd so, lastly, does the name itself of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house. Such then in number and importance are the precious ties belonging to the Christian name which keep a believer in the Catholic ChurchNow if the truth is so clearly proved as to leave no possibility of doubt, it must be set before all the things that keep me in the Catholic ChurchFor my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Churchfor it was through the Catholics that I got my faith in it; and so, whatever you bring from the gospel will no longer have any weight with me. Wherefore, if no clear proof of the apostleship of Manichaeus is found in the gospel, I will believe the Catholics rather than you." Augustine, Against the Epistle of Manichaeus, 4:5,5:6 (A.D 397).

"You think that you make a very acute remark when you affirm the name Catholic to mean universal, not in respect to the communion as embracing the whole world, but in respect to the observance of all Divine precepts and of all the sacraments, as if we (even accepting the position that the Church is called Catholic because it honestly holds the whole truth, of which fragments here and there are found in some heresies) rested upon the testimony of this word's signification, and not upon the promises of God, and so many indisputable testimonies of the truth itself, our demonstration of the existence of the Church of God in all nations." Augustine, To Vincent the Rogatist, 93:7,23 (A.D. 403).

So my fellow brethen , let us be proud of our apostolic heritage. [/b]

mhcampboy SG

nice read…

Pope Nicholas SG

LOL thank you.

Catholics should be proud of their Apostolic roots.

Icemoon SG

I don't understand what is the issue. Any difference whether Constantine or Ignatius coined the term?

Perhaps the question we should ask is, what was Ignatius thinking when he said that? If you don't belong to the Catholic Church, then what church are you?

SingaporeMacross SG

People like to say that there was no Catholic Church before Constantine. By claiming he invented the term, they try to prove that he invented the Catholic Church.

At the time of St Ignatius there was already one Church.

Icemoon SG

Depends on what they mean by one church. So vague isn't it?

Nontheless, Constantine did not invent any church.

Icemoon SG

It doesn't matter whether Ignatius or whoever say there is one church.

Christianity in the early days is like assortment biscuit. If you think the Catholic Protestant schism today is bad, look at early Christianity.

So if you ask me if there is one church, I'd say no. Laughing

SingaporeMacross SG

But Jesus himself must have wished for One.

Icemoon SG

Actually when did Jesus ever talk about a church?

I remember Jesus talking about giving the comforter, the Holy Spirit. But don't remember got talk about church leh.

SingaporeMacross SG

You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church.

There, got mention church what.

Icemoon SG

*ouch*

how can i forget this? Laughing

Pope Nicholas SG

Hmm and didnt Jesus tell us to resolve our doctrinal conflicts in church (so there must be a physical one) in Mat 18:18. St Paul calls the Church the Pillar and Bulwark of truth in 1 Tim 3:15.

Even in early Christianity, it is very clear that there were an Orthodox and Apostolic Church which had rigid doctrines. Which church did the students of the Apostles join?